backfiring

  • February 29, 2012 4:50 AM PST
    My 2000 XL 883 has started backfiring during decel. The air fuel mix adjustment is factory sealed. What could be causing this?
  • February 29, 2012 5:13 AM PST
    Have you changed pipes to aftermarket?
  • February 29, 2012 5:22 AM PST
    pull the secondary jet it's probably taken a beating over the last 12 years! :-)
  • February 29, 2012 6:57 AM PST
    Thanks, I'll be rebuilding the carb in a week or so anyway. Black9 - nope stock pipes.
  • February 29, 2012 7:10 AM PST
    My mongrel Harley has done it since I got it...lol...I actually love it when you back off from just above mid revs and drop it a gear or two and it just throws all that noise at anyone who is close enough to hear it (about a mile I reckon)  ...lol... It makes sure everyone knows you are there right?



    This is my young Godson with his Dad...
    who was trying to steal my Harley...lol...
  • February 29, 2012 8:21 AM PST
    A CV carb has a main jet and secondary jet you can still pull it apart and buy replacement parts for it. The only that is tamper resistant is the main jet adjuster. You could get a Mukuni? :-)
  • February 29, 2012 12:47 PM PST
    I am no mechanic, but , when my sporty did that last summer, (it is fuel injected so not sure this counts) harley told me it was the pipes, but they had been on since i had it, took it to a local guy, he sprayed carb cleaner on the intake gasket and the motor dropped way down, so it fixed it. He said it was sucking air.
  • February 29, 2012 12:55 PM PST
    hum, well being that you bought it used, and are not really sure how it was ridden, stored, or kept, there's a good possibility that the bike might have set for long peroids of time and with out fuel stabilzwe, or it sat now its going on really long rides that it hadn't gone on before. So Check fuel filters and tank screens. What happens is just can sort of clog the filters and screens a wee bit, and it acts up. Or the linging of the tank maybe starting to decompose, not alot but just a week bit and cause things to collect at the right spot.I'm not the knowing in this department, but over the years its some of the lessons I had to learn. Also may want to check cables and such but it really it a fuel issue,fuel change thing, have a great one "T"
  • February 29, 2012 12:56 PM PST
    oh yeah some of the sportys had pepcock problems too, don't ask me how it was able to effect my bike but it did, something like the ruber washer things deccomposed not completely opening therefore restricting fuel flow. have a great one "T"
    • 1 posts
    February 29, 2012 1:28 PM PST
    I'm with Black and a carb re-build will probably correct the problem.

    Another thing to remember is that carberated motors even when tuned correctly will pop on decel under certain conditions.  For instance if you completely decel on down hill from a high RPM, you can expect some popping or backfiring.

    A couple of questions are:
    1) Is it a popping like a "pop... pop.pop" or a true back fire "BANG"!
    2) Does it do it everytime you decelerate?
    3) Does it only do it on a complete decel - from speed to completely shutting down the throttle, or does it do it when you just partially decelerate?

    Depending on your answers, some of what you are experiencing may be completely normal.  Here is a great write-up I got when back in school

    Deceleration backfire, or “popping”. This topic generates a lot of concern from inexperienced riders, or even from experienced guys who just hate the noise, so lets take a look at what causes it. But first things first, lets define the issue:

    Deceleration Backfire is caused by fuel burning in the exhaust manifold or header.

    No ifs ands or buts, that’s what causes it. But the bigger question is how does gas get there in the first place, and that’s a bit more complicated. Generally, there are a variety of ways it gets there, and a variety of things that can make the backfiring worse. But there’s a kicker, and something you should understand before we go any farther:

    Even a motor in perfect tune may occassionally exhibit deceleration backfiring.

    Therefore, just because your motor is banging it up, doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong. And consequently:

    Getting rid of the noise may mean de-tuning your motor.

    Yup. If you’ve jut got to eliminate that popping, you’ll have to accept the fact that your motor is going to be forced to run rich to do it, and that isn’t necessarily a good thing. So lets talk about what causes the problem.

    Ok, so you’re riding along at some given rpm, and suddenly you decide to decelerate, and you reduce the amount of throttle. This causes an “overrun” – that is, the motors rpm is turning faster than the fuel provided can support, so the motor begins to spool down. This causes a couple of things to happen.

    First, when you close the throttle, you are also closing the throttle plates. This reduces the air and fuel flowing into the motor, and increases the vacuum (lowers the pressure). This results in less air and fuel in the cylinder during the power stroke, which in turn results in a lower pressure in the combustion chamber. Remember I said earlier, that the A/F mix burns faster in proportion to the pressure applied? Well, when we reduce pressure this way, the mix burns slower. This results in two things happening.

    1. The lower burning fuel generates less heat, and the cooling effect of the non-burning fuel tends to “quench” the flame front, or slow it down even further. Because the mix is burning much slower, the exhaust valve can open before all the fuel is consumed, and the unburnt fuel is ejected into the exhaust.
    2. The engine designers, in order to promote smoother idling and better combustion, retard the spark when the throttle is shut, and this results in the mix being lit later.

    So, now we end up with unburnt fuel in the exhaust, and burning fuel being ejected into the exhaust, and bang! Backfire. In addition, Honda has added a device called a “programmed air injection valve” (Pair Valve) that actually injects some fresh air into the exhaust to help this process along – since fully burning the fuel results in cleaner exhaust. So the backfiring is not only a normal part of the engines operation, it’s also intentionally amplified by Honda! Of course, normally, that massive bazooka pipe Honda hangs on your bike hides most of the noise, but it’s there, even when you can’t hear it.

    So the bottom line, is: That backfiring is perfectly normal and expected. If you’ve just got get rid of it, that’s up to you. You’re entitled to set your motor up the way you want, and your goals are your goals. But don’t refer to it as “fixing” the popping. Rather, the correct way to think of it is “de-tuning a bit to get rid of the popping”.

    There are a few ways you can do this.

    First, use the stock pipe. It will hide the sound, by absorbing it into mass, and masking it with the larger baffle space. Second, you can add more fuel during deceleration. This has the effect of raising the chamber pressure slightly, which burns a little more before the exhaust valve opens.

    • 5420 posts
    February 29, 2012 1:40 PM PST
    I love that down hill popping

    Interesting read there BailOut
  • February 29, 2012 2:10 PM PST
    Ha! Ha! Good post...and glad to have found it... My FLHX does that damn near all the time....at least thru the 1st 4 gears - even after its warmed up. When riding w/ my friends....they'd always 'act' like something was wrong w/my bike and claimed that I 'needed' to have that fixed. I'd just shake my head and say 'no big deal, I like the sound. Now I can laugh at 'em after reading this post from BailOut ~ Excellent analysis man...
    • 1 posts
    February 29, 2012 2:14 PM PST
    Yep, decel in lower gears will do it because you are turning the motor that much faster increasing the overrun.

    I can actaully force the pop on my shovel to get a drivers attention!
  • February 29, 2012 2:46 PM PST
    My fuel injected backfires. I think it sounds neat. If it's running good, ride it.
    • 3006 posts
    February 29, 2012 3:05 PM PST
    Thanks Bailout great info,been riding w/my Honda doing that every so often just get used to it.Now I know better what the pair valves are there for.some guys yank them off after they get new pipes n rejet,usually it lowers the smount,yet doesnt completely eliminate them.
  • February 29, 2012 6:06 PM PST
    BailOut wrote...
    I'm with Black and a carb re-build will probably correct the problem.

    Another thing to remember is that carberated motors even when tuned correctly will pop on decel under certain conditions.  For instance if you completely decel on down hill from a high RPM, you can expect some popping or backfiring.

    A couple of questions are:
    1) Is it a popping like a "pop... pop.pop" or a true back fire "BANG"!
    2) Does it do it everytime you decelerate?
    3) Does it only do it on a complete decel - from speed to completely shutting down the throttle, or does it do it when you just partially decelerate?

    Depending on your answers, some of what you are experiencing may be completely normal.  Here is a great write-up I got when back in school

    Deceleration backfire, or “popping”. This topic generates a lot of concern from inexperienced riders, or even from experienced guys who just hate the noise, so lets take a look at what causes it. But first things first, lets define the issue:

    Deceleration Backfire is caused by fuel burning in the exhaust manifold or header.

    No ifs ands or buts, that’s what causes it. But the bigger question is how does gas get there in the first place, and that’s a bit more complicated. Generally, there are a variety of ways it gets there, and a variety of things that can make the backfiring worse. But there’s a kicker, and something you should understand before we go any farther:

    Even a motor in perfect tune may occassionally exhibit deceleration backfiring.

    Therefore, just because your motor is banging it up, doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong. And consequently:

    Getting rid of the noise may mean de-tuning your motor.

    Yup. If you’ve jut got to eliminate that popping, you’ll have to accept the fact that your motor is going to be forced to run rich to do it, and that isn’t necessarily a good thing. So lets talk about what causes the problem.

    Ok, so you’re riding along at some given rpm, and suddenly you decide to decelerate, and you reduce the amount of throttle. This causes an “overrun” – that is, the motors rpm is turning faster than the fuel provided can support, so the motor begins to spool down. This causes a couple of things to happen.

    First, when you close the throttle, you are also closing the throttle plates. This reduces the air and fuel flowing into the motor, and increases the vacuum (lowers the pressure). This results in less air and fuel in the cylinder during the power stroke, which in turn results in a lower pressure in the combustion chamber. Remember I said earlier, that the A/F mix burns faster in proportion to the pressure applied? Well, when we reduce pressure this way, the mix burns slower. This results in two things happening.

    1. The lower burning fuel generates less heat, and the cooling effect of the non-burning fuel tends to “quench” the flame front, or slow it down even further. Because the mix is burning much slower, the exhaust valve can open before all the fuel is consumed, and the unburnt fuel is ejected into the exhaust.
    2. The engine designers, in order to promote smoother idling and better combustion, retard the spark when the throttle is shut, and this results in the mix being lit later.

    So, now we end up with unburnt fuel in the exhaust, and burning fuel being ejected into the exhaust, and bang! Backfire. In addition, Honda has added a device called a “programmed air injection valve” (Pair Valve) that actually injects some fresh air into the exhaust to help this process along – since fully burning the fuel results in cleaner exhaust. So the backfiring is not only a normal part of the engines operation, it’s also intentionally amplified by Honda! Of course, normally, that massive bazooka pipe Honda hangs on your bike hides most of the noise, but it’s there, even when you can’t hear it.

    So the bottom line, is: That backfiring is perfectly normal and expected. If you’ve just got get rid of it, that’s up to you. You’re entitled to set your motor up the way you want, and your goals are your goals. But don’t refer to it as “fixing” the popping. Rather, the correct way to think of it is “de-tuning a bit to get rid of the popping”.

    There are a few ways you can do this.

    First, use the stock pipe. It will hide the sound, by absorbing it into mass, and masking it with the larger baffle space. Second, you can add more fuel during deceleration. This has the effect of raising the chamber pressure slightly, which burns a little more before the exhaust valve opens.


    Yeah!  What He Said!!!  ...lol...


    Personally, I would think something was wrong with mine if it DIDN'T do it!!!
  • February 29, 2012 6:13 PM PST
    The popping you hear is raw fuel igniting inside your exhaust and is due to inefficient combustion fire when gearing down at higher speeds, it happens to most bikes. For myself I try to just get that all tuned out of it, makes my mechanic ear cringe... a nice smooth release on decel is optimum but this is NOT a perfect world!
    • 1161 posts
    February 29, 2012 6:13 PM PST
    I kind of like the poping after I rebuilt my carbs, the backfireing stopped finally. Lol. But the poping I like I was next to some street legal dragster and my pipes poping (From a Honda)were louder then his cage he did not look to happy as I revved the engine to twist the knife in the wound in his eyes. HAHA
  • February 29, 2012 6:17 PM PST
    Shame on you for stealing his 'cool' like that! TSK TSK Seak!
    • 1161 posts
    February 29, 2012 6:23 PM PST
    Lol
  • February 29, 2012 6:30 PM PST
    Where I live we have a lot of commuter parking on local streets...I love blasting past all their cars and the backfiring sets off all their car alarms...hahahahaha, many a time I seen them come back to a flat battery, works for me!!!
  • February 29, 2012 6:47 PM PST
    Tumbles wrote...
    hum, well being that you bought it used, and are not really sure how it was ridden, stored, or kept, there's a good possibility that the bike might have set for long peroids of time and with out fuel stabilzwe, or it sat now its going on really long rides that it hadn't gone on before. So Check fuel filters and tank screens. What happens is just can sort of clog the filters and screens a wee bit, and it acts up. Or the linging of the tank maybe starting to decompose, not alot but just a week bit and cause things to collect at the right spot.I'm not the knowing in this department, but over the years its some of the lessons I had to learn. Also may want to check cables and such but it really it a fuel issue,fuel change thing, have a great one "T"


    Always makes me wonder why in forums do people feel the need to answer someones question with "I really don't know much about this, but"....  Is it really that important to some to reply to EVERY topic just to make someone read an extra couple of paragraphs providing no help with their original question.  This reply states ".I'm not the knowing in this department," but why then make suggestions to waste the guys time.  Yes, a clean filter and screen is important, but is not and could not cause this problem.  Working blinkers are also important, but probably wouldn't have him check those if he's looking for a solution to backfiring!
    • 1161 posts
    February 29, 2012 6:47 PM PST
    Haha!
    • 1 posts
    February 29, 2012 6:59 PM PST
    Wired, have often wondered that myself. Some people I guess just feel that need to reply to say they have no answer.

    Sometimes when I see suggestions posted that can actually cause damage to a bike or danger to a rider I will notify the site operator. In cases like this where checking the fuel filters will just waste the guy's time and not do any damage, I just hope he reads the part that stated she didn't really know and moves onto valid suggestions.

    If you hang around any of these sites enough you will always find a few that do reply to everything. Its normally harmless and after a while you just kind of read right past it.
  • March 1, 2012 12:49 AM PST
    BailOut I did exactly that on the HDForum board and I got banned! LOL
    I guess they don't care who gets hurt out there when it comes to just $hitty advice especially when it comes to the safe operations of a machines that the difference is life or death... baffles me how anyone wouldn't just say, at very least "That's probably NOT a good idea and you should probably consult a professional prior to doing this or that..."